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Do you think that the Trump Tax plan will help the middle class?

Yes
No
I have no idea



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1179. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (12/14/2017 1:00:21 PM)
     Message ID #295217

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295215 )  View All Related Messages

Some, many, as we see these days, essentially extremists, would/have called it a lie.

1178. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (12/14/2017 12:58:59 PM)
     Message ID #295216

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History always has a funny way of repeating...Republicans are doomed, for the time being anyway.

"The Democratic leadership, fearful that momentum for Obamacare was fading as it continued to poll poorly, decided to rush a bill through the Senate before Christmas 2009. On November 18, Majority Leader Harry Reid merged two separate pending bills into a bill to be voted on by the Senate…. To meet the self-imposed Christmas deadline, Reid provided only six days for debate [on the final version of the bill]. The Senate bill passed on a strict party line vote, 60-39.
Few people, including Senators and their staffs, had time to read the whole 2,700 page bill, much less note any possible weaknesses, flaws, or ambiguities. Reid and other Senate Democrats weren’t terribly worried about this. The bill was set to go to the House, then back to the Senate, then to “reconciliation” between the House and the Senate versions, and then to the president for his signature. Everyone thought there would be plenty of opportunities to make changes
But a major impediment arose soon after the Senate bill passed. Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy had died that past summer, and the January special election to replace him was won by Republican Scott Brown, who ran as a strong opponent of Obamacare. This deprived the Democrats of their filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and meant that the Senate would not be able to pass a revised bill. The only way to pass Obamacare at this point was to have the House vote on identical legislation to the Senate bill, while engaging in legally dubious procedural maneuvering. And that’s what the Democrats did.

The House passed the Senate bill as is, and then also passed a separate reconciliation bill with minor changes, eliminating some of the law’s most egregious flaws but leaving the rest intact….

Congress ultimately passed a Senate bill that nobody wanted, and, indeed, that likely no one had read in its entirety when the Senate passed it, and that certainly no one fully understood. Senator Max Baucus, one of Obamacare’s chief architects, not only acknowledged not reading the bill, but opined that it would have been a “waste of time” to do so, because only experts could understand it….

Obama and the Democrats, however, believed that two things would happen that would justify their actions. First, Obamacare would become increasingly popular, and, second, that the Democrats would continue to control both houses of Congress. Obama and Congressional Democrats therefore assumed that any snafus that arose because Obamacare consisted of a hastily-drafted Senate bill never meant to become law could be easily fixed by Congress."

-David Bernstein WAPO 6/25/2105

Message edited by user at 12/14/2017 1:03:21 PM

1177. D Robb
     (12/14/2017 12:24:43 PM)
     Message ID #295215

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #295213 )  View All Related Messages

You are correct. President Obama misspoke. He did not deliberately lie, nor did he attack those who challenged his statements. trump repeatedly tells the same lies, which he knows are lies, and attacks those who point out that he is lying. "Muslims cheered as the twin towers came down." "President Obama was not born in this country." "5 million illegals voted in the last election." There is a complete list at the link, if you are interested.

1176. M Bathurst
     (12/14/2017 11:59:32 AM)
     Message ID #295214

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #295203 )  View All Related Messages

It is Meyer; not M.

1175. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (12/14/2017 11:58:57 AM)
     Message ID #295213

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295211 )  View All Related Messages

NYT isn't exactly an unbiased source of Journalism, used to be not any more, those people retired.

"If you like your Healthcare Plan, you can keep your plan"
"If you like your Doctor, you can keep your Doctor"
"The average family will save $2,500 per year in premiums"
"you will be able to buy insurance for less than your cell phone plan"

Those were some Doozies!

At the time I didn't consider those "lies", because I recognized the man's ignorance of the health insurance market. Didn't matter, most folks believed him because they didn't know.

Neither Obama, nor Clinton never mentioned a Sub-S Corp, until Trump brought up the subject, simply because they didn't understand the tax code.

Even today I read people such as Krugman who I know doesn't know. A sub-s can be exposed to the highest tax rate under the current code without the benefit of c-corp tax advantages. Furthermore, the safe harbor rules make it insidious, you can be losing money the following year mandated to pay out huge estimates sucking up all your capital.

1174. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (12/14/2017 11:42:34 AM)
     Message ID #295212

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295204 )  View All Related Messages

I've read where all the property, equities, corporations all in, is somewhere between $100 to $120 trillion. Unrecorded debt pensions, Social security, etc. is much higher.

Interesting film done by Bannon, Citizens United in 2010, that puts it into a historical perspective, and the failure of the baby boomer generation. "Generation Zero". You can find it on you tube.

1173. D Robb
     (12/14/2017 11:30:22 AM)
     Message ID #295211

This message is in response to B Hoskins ( message id #295185 )  View All Related Messages

trump’s lies versus President Obama’s lies. The bone spur guy is on track to tell 124 lies per year. Rated using the same Fact Check standards, President Obama told TWO (2) per year. trump is different. When he is caught lying, he will often try to discredit people telling the truth, be they judges, scientists, F.B.I. or C.I.A. officials, journalists or members of Congress. trump is trying to make truth irrelevant. He is trying to create an alternative facts unreality for everyone.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/14/opinion/sunday/trump-lies-obama-who-is-worse.html

1172. Noel Meyer
     (12/14/2017 11:14:29 AM)
     Message ID #295210

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It’s Official: Republicans Are Trying To Destroy The Federal Government

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe1trH66ag

1171. Patricia Pomerleau CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (12/14/2017 10:21:10 AM)
     Message ID #295209

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295204 )  View All Related Messages

All I did is print verbatim what was being reported from Business Insider and the Chicago Tribune. Just lists of fact. No more, no less.

I think you are getting a bit too emotional given the last 48 hours and reading your emotion into other's posts. I know Moore not being in the senate is hard to take, but Lordy Robert, all I did was copy and paste.

No personal emotion at all.

I will do very well under the Trump tax plan, so one side of me is, "well, just roll with it"

However, I hate leaving future generations with such massive debt.

If Bob Corker gets his "if the debt goes over (X), things get rolled back" I could go with the plan. However, since the Leaders KNOW that their plan will balloon the debt, that will never happen. Corker will not vote for the plan without it, so I guess it is a good thing for Trump that they are steamrolling this thing through before Jones comes to town.

Oh, and your memory is short.

I was a big critic of Obama. I never voted for him and thought he was giving away the store. However, I gave him credit where credit was due and I thought Obamacare was a logical first step in providing the right of health to Americans.

I have screamed about Bush causing massive debt and a completely horribly mistaken war in Iraq.

I have always voted Republican until Cheeto came along.

1170. Noel Meyer
     (12/14/2017 9:12:07 AM)
     Message ID #295208

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FCC to decide fate of Net Neutrality today.

3 republican FCC directors said to be voting to end neutrality.

Trump personally holding up Government reaction to the threat of Russian involvement in American elections

Trump daily briefing said to have to avoid information bad about Russia to avoid upsetting Trump

Trump did create a committee looking into 3 million illegals who he says voted for Hillary in 2016

Nero played his fiddle while Rome burned,

Trump fiddled around while everyone but Trump agrees that Russia is meddling our elections and elections in the West.
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