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Do you think that the Trump Tax plan will help the middle class?

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I have no idea



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459. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/30/2017 1:25:15 PM)
     Message ID #294489

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Talk about magic... liberals fire one bullet at a conservative sexual assault target and hit a dozen liberals from Congress, the media and Hollywood.

Latest to fall: Russel Simmons

(Wait until the Congressional list comes out.)

458. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/30/2017 12:48:43 PM)
     Message ID #294488

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #294486 )  View All Related Messages

I understand you see it as a Trump weakness. I see it as a Trump strength. But I don't care much about your personal take - or mine... I just think there are some interesting surprises that may be in store for us all.

This may come as a surprise to you Noel... but the greatest leader in the world isn't going to reach agreement with a belligerent that doesn't want one. (or a belligerent political party for that matter).

I will consider your suggestion (and Robb's) that Trump has mental challenges - because I am forced to admit that both of you have vast personal experience with that particular malady.

457. Noel Meyer
     (11/30/2017 12:44:47 PM)
     Message ID #294487

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294483 )  View All Related Messages

"The bill lifts the 1954 ban on political activism by churches and confers a new legal right for fetuses— both on the wish list of the evangelical right."

What have these provisions got to do with tax reform for the middle class?

If such provisions are their to persuade the Evangelicals to vote for it, is it really a tax reform bill any more or just special interest legislation tied to critical legislation being rushed through at the end of the year?

456. Noel Meyer
     (11/30/2017 12:28:29 PM)
     Message ID #294486

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #294482 )  View All Related Messages

Robert-

"I hope fat Kim is paying attention - though I think he is too close to back off. An impending attack by the US is passing the 50-50 mark. Only the Chinese can stop a military action at this point."

So as Patricia, D Robb and others have pointed out, Trump's INSTABILITY and lack of reality has the nation "passing the 50-50 mark" to war which you mention ONLY the Chinese can stop.

So for the first time in a long while, America is on the brink of war, a war a foreign enemy has control to stop and we don't?

"Our intelligence community has been a disgrace for the last few decades. It wouldn't be hard to slip some major military advances past them"

Robert- in this new global economy, it is hard not to see major military advances, most notable has been in 5th generation jet fighter development and drone technology which Iran and China have profited from due to downed drones used in the Middle East.

Funny thing about satellites, they see everything, but as you mention it takes a brain to make sense of what they see. Air shows, under the guise of entertainment, reveal much about such advances. What is unexpected is that INTENT and NATIONAL/TRIBAL PRIDE are the intelligence 'unknowns' hidden behind the boasting and political rhetoric of crazies.

"If the Chinese don't stop NK"

We recently had a forum on LEADERSHIP so I'm guessing that this lack of American leadership is still one more example of Trump's mental challenges.

455. D Robb
     (11/30/2017 11:54:56 AM)
     Message ID #294485

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Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Illinois, an Air Force veteran who served in Iraq and Afghanistan criticized on Thursday President Donald Trump's retweets of anti-Muslim videos, saying it doesn't help the fight against terrorism. "I think we have ISIS on its heels. We're fighting, frankly, these forces of evil all over the world. But I do think it matters if you retweet a video that's not real or that is put out by an extremist, I guess, in the UK."
Trump retweeted three videos Wednesday morning, showing people purported to be Muslims carrying out assaults and, in one video, smashing a statue of the Virgin Mary. The videos are fakes created by a small, fringe, anti-Muslim group in the UK where they have been denounced by the government. PM May criticized trump for posting them.
Kinzinger said there are mornings when he wakes up saying he wished the President hadn't tweeted.
"I don't think it helps to win at all," he said. "I think (it's helpful) to rally the people you can come and say, look, listen, we're fighting a real war on terror here. But, I think, to say it's basically all of Islam, us versus them, or to retweet this video, is definitely not helpful in the least."
More strategically, Kinzinger noted, animosity between Muslims and Americans may be what extends the war on terror.
"We have to fight what I call the next generational war on terror. It's the 7- and 8-year-olds," Kinzinger added. "Doesn't mean we fight them. It means we have to understand these are the ones that are either going to be the ones who are our enemies or they're going to be the ones who reject terrorism within their own community."
Sen. Angus King, a Maine independent who caucuses with Democrats, echoed Kinzinger's concerns, also telling "New Day" that Trump's decision to share the videos "was wildly counter to our national security interests."
"This is literally part of the ISIS and jihadist playbook, to separate the west from Islam," King said. "There are 1.9 billion Muslims in the world. Do we really want to alienate them?"

454. D Robb
     (11/30/2017 11:46:15 AM)
     Message ID #294484

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Three GOP Senators still have serious concerns about the tax bill: Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine said it “would be very difficult” to support the Senate tax bill unless Congress agrees to preserve an individual deduction for state and local property taxes and passes separate legislation to support the individual health care market. “I am not committed to voting for this bill,” she said during a breakfast session organized by the Christian Science Monitor.
Collins also said she’ll pursue an amendment to enhance the child tax credit -- and pay for the revenue cost by ending the “carried interest” tax break that favors investment managers.
Senators Corker and Toomey of Pennsylvania are negotiating over the trigger concept, according to Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn of Texas. They want some pixie dust to cover them when the bill results in the deficits that virtually all economists are predicting. Some weasel worded provision that there would be legislative action to cancel the tax cuts and revert to the old rates. Of course, they have to be talking about about the temporary individual tax rates since the corporate tax cuts will be permanent.

453. D Robb
     (11/30/2017 11:35:43 AM)
     Message ID #294483

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Back to the subject of the forum, this horrible, awful tax bill. There are a lot of bad things in the tax bill, some have nothing to do with taxes. That is to be expected when you craft the bill in secrecy with no public hearings. The bill lifts the 1954 ban on political activism by churches and confers a new legal right for fetuses— both on the wish list of the evangelical right. If the Senate passes its bill, will these survive?

Elements in both the House and Senate bills could constrain the ability of states and local governments to levy their own taxes, pressuring them to limit spending on health care, education, public transportation and social services. This is an attempt to reduce the blue states to the level of the red states.

trump and the GOP appear willing to make any deal as long as it brings votes, interest groups have fixed on the tax bill as a unique opportunity to further their agendas. “There’s a Christmas-tree aspect to the bill,” said C. Eugene Steuerle, a Treasury official during the Reagan administration.

Economists and tax experts are overwhelmingly skeptical that the bills in the House and Senate can generate meaningful job growth and economic expansion. Many view the legislation not as a product of genuine deliberation, but as a transfer of wealth to corporations and affluent individuals. By 2027, people making $40,000 to $50,000 would pay a combined $5.3 billion more in taxes, while the group earning $1 million or more would get a $5.8 billion cut, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation and the Congressional Budget Office.

452. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/30/2017 11:23:54 AM)
     Message ID #294482

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #294480 )  View All Related Messages

Lol. Confusion in Noel's mind is like wet on rain. No shock there.

What is happening is more ominous. The President is pulling his negotiating team and replacing them with a wartime crew. If he has a successful tax bill at his back - he is free to focus on taking action on NK. I hope fat Kim is paying attention - though I think he is too close to back off. An impending attack by the US is passing the 50-50 mark. Only the Chinese can stop a military action at this point.

The Chinese are winning the long term economic war. It is not in their interests to upset that by allowing a war. But NK seems to have gotten some big help lately... and I suspect Russia. Here's why...

The Russian GDP is a fraction of both the US and China. They are way behind in the economic war. But they have had plenty of time under the sleeping Obama to make serious advances in the only game they have left... the military. They can't just become belligerent without isolating themselves in the world... but they could - if we attacked NK and they stepped in to 'save' the little communist nation.

Our intelligence community has been a disgrace for the last few decades. It wouldn't be hard to slip some major military advances past them... especially as they have been utterly distracted by meaningless claims of political interference that Russia seem to play into to some extent. Diversion?

If the Chinese don't stop NK... we will soon find out.

Message edited by user at 11/30/2017 11:25:25 AM

451. D Robb
     (11/30/2017 11:07:42 AM)
     Message ID #294481

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #294480 )  View All Related Messages

Noel, like many on this forum, trump cannot deal with dissenting views. He doesn't understand the strength of soliciting opposing viewpoints and finding solutions that benefit the greatest number with a minimum of negative fallout.
Before we are done with trump he will have succeeded in driving out some of the best minds in Washington and replaced them with hacks.

450. Noel Meyer
     (11/30/2017 10:59:13 AM)
     Message ID #294480

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294478 )  View All Related Messages

White House Plans Tillerson Ouster From State Dept., to Be Replaced by Pompeo, Within Weeks

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/us/politics/state-department-tillerson-pompeo-trump.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

"WASHINGTON — The White House has developed a plan to force out Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson, whose relationship with President Trump has been strained, and replace him with Mike Pompeo, the C.I.A. director, perhaps within the next several weeks, senior administration officials said on Thursday.

Mr. Pompeo would be replaced at the C.I.A. by Senator Tom Cotton, a Republican from Arkansas who has been a key ally of the president on national security matters, according to the White House plan. Mr. Cotton has signaled that he would accept the job if offered, said the officials, who insisted on anonymity to discuss sensitive deliberations before decisions are announced.

It was not immediately clear whether Mr. Trump has given final approval to the plan, but he has been said to have soured on Mr. Tillerson and in general is ready to make a change at the State Department. John F. Kelly, the White House chief of staff, developed the transition plan and has discussed it with other officials.

Under his plan, the shake-up of the national security team would happen around the end of the year or shortly afterward. But for all of his public combativeness, Mr. Trump is notoriously reluctant to fire people, and it was not known if Mr. Tillerson had agreed to step down by then. Public disclosure of Mr. Kelly’s transition plan may be meant as a signal to the secretary that it is time to go.

At the same time, there was some concern in the White House about the appearance of a rush to the exits given that other senior officials may also leave in the early part of the new year. White House officials were debating whether it would be better to spread out any departures or just get them over with all at once."


Sounds like additional examples of "confusion" in Mr. Trump's mind.
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