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Do you think it's more effective to be for or against something or someone?

For
Against
Something else — what?



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1. Patricia Pomerleau CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (12/11/2017 12:41:02 PM)
     Message ID #295051

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When faced with a question to which you must speak your mind, do you find you are more persuasive when you are for or against the question?

    Does it matter whether the decision is internal or external?

    For example, if you are deciding whether or not to take a new job or to make an investment (internal), do you approach your analysis any differently that deciding who among a slate of candidates to support (external)?
Often we think we have to influence others.
    We face family decisions, policy issues, deciding for whom to vote.

    Does the audience dictate your tactics?
Do you find it necessary to counter every argument you hear?
    How hard is it to be against something (or someone) and not be seen as negative?

    Or are there advantages to smiling and nodding and leaving your position ambiguous?
What does it take for you to change your position on a question?



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2. Noel Meyer
     (12/30/2017 8:20:56 AM)
     Message ID #295850

This message is in response to Patricia Pomerleau ( message id #295051 )  Back To All Messages

Do you think it's more effective to be for or against something or someone?

1. What an EXCELLENT POLL QUESTION! ! !

2. I'll borrow the tag line of another contributor, " It Depends"
a. If all are for something, I agin it.
b. If all are against something, I try to play devil's advocate and contribute 'what if' down the road.

3. Americans (IMO) are tired of the Republican 'not just "NO", but "HELL NO"' attacks AGAINST any and all things not of their own.

4. Americans and the world WANT leadership, can't prove a negative, can't lead when you don't support something.

5. Whether company spirit, team spirit or what have you, its MORE effective when you FOR something you can build upon. Anything else is disruptive when you are against something you still have to be for something else.

6. An ASSASSIN is against something or someone == A BUILDER is for something. Is it harder to be for something? You betcha. Its easier to be against -- Against change, Against mercy for others, Against helping other "JUST SAY NO" or "HELL NO" like the Republicans do.

7. Did America win WWII by being against something (GERMANY) or for something (TRUTH, JUSTICE AND THE AMERICAN WAY)?

8. Seems the answer comes from 'Are you the king of the world or are you just one of many?' If you are a hammer, then being AGAINST things comes naturally, if you are a solver, then being for something is where and how you approach your solutions.

9. Ying and Yang -- it depends comes in when you think --"Am I really paranoid, or are they really out to get me?" If you don't trust democracy then being against things is your bag, If you do trust the founding fathers, then being for America rules your life.

3. Noel Meyer
     (12/30/2017 4:36:32 AM)
     Message ID #295851

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #295850 )  Back To All Messages

"In the movie World War Z, one of the characters described something called "the Tenth Man Rule." After several disasters that NO ONE thought could happen, the Council decided that if a vote was unanimous against a possible outcome, one member would act as if it was ABSOLUTELY going to happen, and trying to prevent it."

1. yeah its a movie

2. don't mean it isn't of value

3. when everyone else is voting one way doesn't mean they're right just look at WMD in Iraq.

4. Richard Frontera CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/1/2018 5:34:41 PM)
     Message ID #295949

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #295850 )  Back To All Messages

You know, Noel.

I agree entirely with #3 Americans's are tired of Republicans..attacks. Here is the issue that you are totally missing. Americans are also tired of Democrats extremely similar attacks on anything that is not an idea of their own.
Largest problem in this country right now is the vilification of the other. What is required is a viewpoint that says-here is the problem, this is my idea to fix it what is your idea to fix it? And then work on it from there.

Right now there is only vilification-period.

Republicans say --You are trying to give away the efforts of the hardworking to the takers and the cheaters.
Democrats say --you are trying to take the food out of the mouths of the poor to line the pockets of those who have so much they can't even tell that now they have more.

Truth is Democrats do not wish to punish people for succeeding and Republicans don't want to deliver the money from the indigent to the 1%...and no discussion is permitted that would admit either...Free speech is dead and the reason there is "fake news' is because there are too many sources and nothing is said truthfully and straight out and rather than reporting straight out they are playing to their watchers.

Just one quick example: The tax bill removes the ACA penalty for not buying insurance. I have heard on any number of more left leaning outlets that this will cause 11,-12 million people to lose their insurance. Fact is it causes none to lose there insurance-however, given a totally free choice, that many will likely choose not to buy it. I don't think that it is a good idea-probably the mandate stabilizes markets and prices but it is certainly reported with an intended slant.

5. D Robb
     (12/30/2017 8:36:42 AM)
     Message ID #295950

This message is in response to Richard Frontera ( message id #295949 )  Back To All Messages

Richard, you have to agree on objectives or goals before you work on making them happen. Insurance works if everyone participates. I had no medical bills or hospital stays for 64 years, but I paid for health insurance for others. I had two hospital stays in the last three years. If you share the goal that everyone should have access to excellent healthcare you need to go to single payer as all other advanced industrialized western countries have. Amazingly, they offer better healthcare to ALL their citizens at one half to one third the cost per patient per year.

6. Richard Frontera CEOExpressSelect Member
     (12/30/2017 4:43:00 AM)
     Message ID #295953

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295950 )  Back To All Messages

I do think people (not politicians or pundits) do agree on the goals. I did say in my post that I did not agree with removing the mandate...I was just using the example of how it is reported i.e. people will “lose” their insurance as opposed to now choosing not to buy it.
Everything is slanted in the reporting, whether it is Fox or MSNBC it is all inflammatory and to the point of the poll question, anti-the “other.”

7. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 7:34:20 AM)
     Message ID #295954

This message is in response to Richard Frontera ( message id #295953 )  Back To All Messages

No. There is plenty of 'anti-other' to go around... but conservatives have a long list of what they want and why they want it... with specifics and details.

Democrats want only one thing... power.

To justify it... they voice vague concerns about broad issues like equality and inclusiveness - while clearly practicing the exact opposite.

This is not people vrs people or ideas vrs ideas... this is a relatively undisguised grope for power supported by tribal emotionalism and driven by identity politics.

It is not business as usual. For once... it really is something along the lines of good vrs evil - and there can be no going back.

8. Noel Meyer
     (1/1/2018 5:39:50 PM)
     Message ID #295971

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295954 )  Back To All Messages

"There is plenty of 'anti-other' to go around... but conservatives have a long list of what they want and why they want it... with specifics and details.

Conservatives, the party of not just "NO" but "HELL NO" have a long list of attacks AGAINST the other side and some emotional HATRED that their delusion of how America should work is not the way America does work.

"specifics and details" huh? All forms of being AGAINST but failed policy after failed policy of solutions FOR these problems. How can you claim leadership when even your own party members do not vote for such campaigns of HATRED AGAINST policies?

You and Thomas talk of greed, of doing nothing but having politicians getting re-elected, but when it comes to leadership, the Trump Republicans have lost time after time after time being AGAINST rather than offering solutions FOR problems.

9. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (12/30/2017 8:47:19 AM)
     Message ID #295973

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295954 )  Back To All Messages

"Democrats want only one thing... power."

Robert,

I suppose now you're gonna try and tell us that the Republicans DON'T practice similar, nay the same, characteristics????? Tsk! Tsk!

Whatever happened to Bi-Partisan Politics???? You remember that antiquated practice politicians used to utilize where they worked WITH their colleagues from the other side of the aisle in order to enact legislation that was actually beneficial for their constituents and the country as a whole.

But these days that's been dropped and forgotten in favor of "Mine!, Mine! All I Care About Is What I Want" politics - practiced by BOTH parties. These days, Politicians are politicians. Efff the People, the OTHER party and what's good for the Country. The ONLY things they care about these days are preserving their own lil' fiefdoms. All the more reason for Term Limits among several other limitations that need to be enacted to reduce, restrict and otherwise limit their authority.

Dear ole Ben and the rest of the FF's are probably doing flip-flops in their graves watching the politicos screw up all the good work they (the FF's) did oh those several hundred+ years ago.

10. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/1/2018 8:15:59 PM)
     Message ID #295974

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #295973 )  Back To All Messages

No, Tams. Republicans under Bush were worse than Democrats under Obama. Had Hillary been elected we would have inherited the very worst of Bush and Obama.

The point is... the people behind Bush and the people behind Obama are essentially the same folks. Obama was a screwdriver and Bush was a wrench. When they needed a war to continue that people would never support with another Republican... they gave us a peacenik Democrat so everyone could assume that if he did a war - we must have really, really needed it.

That's why I support Donald Trump. He is no Democrat and he is no Republican. He jumped into a situation that has no upside for him... and is only eclipsed on the downside by Veterans who understood (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly) that they could die in support of the principles of the agreement that binds us.

Today, we are faced with another enemy who threatens those principles. They aren't Nazi's or Redcoats this time... and they use other Americans for their soldiers. That makes them far more dangerous than any previous threat.

Perhaps we can destroy them without destroying their soldiers (Americans who are once again fighting in a wrong war).

Perhaps we can't. Either way, raising the notion of bi-partisan politics in an environment of existential war is pretty silly.

11. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/1/2018 9:41:57 PM)
     Message ID #295975

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295974 )  Back To All Messages

Well Robert, to some extent I agree w/ what you've said but then to some extent I disagree as well.

If you reread my third para I said that both parties were guilty of "bad faith politics" as it were and they are so we agree there.

True enough DJT is neither a Donkeycrat nor a Repugnican but neither is he qualified to run a country w/ or w/o assistance from "Veterans who understood (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly) that they could die in support of the principles of the agreement that binds us."

"Today, we are faced with another enemy who threatens those principles."

True enough again but DJT "in charge" of the country certainly isn't helping overcome those enemies either but rather him "in charge" is making the situation even worse. He repeatedly allows his Twitter account to continually overload his --- to the detriment of us all. I won't elaborate on how badly I think he's doing as you already know my thoughts on that issue. I'll merely say they haven't changed.

Hopefully WE, including both "We, The People" and the country as a whole can indeed overcome all that ails us w/ the current crop of politicos (from BOTH parties & including DJT) running amuck. But NOT raising the specter of Bi-Partisan Politics under ANY circumstances is wrong from the outset.

12. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/1/2018 9:31:16 PM)
     Message ID #295985

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #295975 )  Back To All Messages

We seem to agree on the problem - but not the solution.

The problem is that the horse is dead. You want to solve it by chanting a few verses and helping him to his feet. I want to solve it by pushing him into a hole and covering him with dirt.

If yours works... I'm all for it.

13. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/1/2018 8:44:16 PM)
     Message ID #295987

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295985 )  Back To All Messages

While I'm very much "Pro" the "First People's" rights and all I'm not sure it makes sense in this case but that's neither here nor there. Getting to a workable solution is where it's at, regardless of what it entails.

And "No" I'm in no particular hurry to flog any dead horses either. If they need to be buried (and they do) then the sooner the better.

The longer DJT is "in charge" the less likely we are to find a solution and that's not helped by the Legislature (both houses) continuing on its' merry way doing as it has been for oh so long.

Thus ... Running DJT out of town and reworking how the Legislature does its' business BOTH need to be made a Top Priority before the situation gets even more out of control than it already is. My preferred solution RE: DJT is Resignation (extremely low, if not negative?, odds though) but I'll accept Impeachment if that's the only way it can be accomplished; WRT the Legislature, it may be a little harder to implement but I think it'd be a far superior one in the long run and that is a "Convention of the States".

14. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 8:48:43 AM)
     Message ID #295995

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #295987 )  Back To All Messages

It wasn't long ago that the Narrative of the Elite was broadcasting how Trumpian policy (and tweets) would drive the regular people of Iran into the arms of their black robed Swamy.

Suffice it to say, the Ayatollah was not shutting down Social Media while Barry Soweto was at the helm.

Maybe (just maybe) we shouldn't suck so mindlessly on the media (teat) of the elite. Maybe (just maybe) we should let our elected official do his job - and stop pretending that we (who haven't been able to get out of our own way in two decades) know better.

Message edited by user at 1/2/2018 8:59:53 AM

15. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 8:29:45 AM)
     Message ID #295997

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295995 )  Back To All Messages

Robert, citing obscure (possibly, delusional) quotes as being valid is a trick your little hands friend uses, "so some people say." It only shows that you are devoid of facts to support your views, and need to make issues up.

16. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 7:53:05 AM)
     Message ID #296000

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295997 )  Back To All Messages

I see. So you are saying that Iran did not interrupt any internet services because of growing social disobedience.

Despite your renowned intellect and honesty... I think I'll just stay pat with this hand.

17. D Robb
     (1/1/2018 10:06:45 PM)
     Message ID #296002

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296000 )  Back To All Messages

I didn't discuss it at all. Where do you think I did? You get more and more delusional? Have you sought expert medical help?

18. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 11:00:58 AM)
     Message ID #296003

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #296002 )  Back To All Messages

I know. You didn't discuss what I said at all. You simply drifted to whatever the hell you pleased while trying to maintain the illusion of being right on point.

19. M Bathurst
     (1/2/2018 9:36:40 AM)
     Message ID #296004

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296003 )  Back To All Messages

Thanks for the little chuckle.

Hope your New Years was grand.

20. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 8:21:27 AM)
     Message ID #296005

This message is in response to M Bathurst ( message id #296004 )  Back To All Messages

It was. I'm all rested up and looking forward to the War of 2018. (especially the spoils).

21. M Bathurst
     (1/1/2018 10:11:42 PM)
     Message ID #296022

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296005 )  Back To All Messages

I do strongly wish you could create some real casualties here. The World would be a better place.

22. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 12:59:38 PM)
     Message ID #296024

This message is in response to M Bathurst ( message id #296022 )  Back To All Messages

Dialectical necessity, M.

It is the depth of perversity that makes the triumph of valor so sweet.

23. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 11:29:42 AM)
     Message ID #296008

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296003 )  Back To All Messages

Actually, Robert, I was discussing the Iranian Nuclear Agreement. You were the one who was off in some delusional Faux and Friends alternative facts tirade.

24. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 11:25:42 AM)
     Message ID #296010

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #296008 )  Back To All Messages

Actually, Robb... you were responding to my post... and I wasn't.

25. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 10:34:59 AM)
     Message ID #296011

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296010 )  Back To All Messages

Understood, you were off talking to yourself in a delusional alternative facts forum. Since you can't get intelligent answers from yourself you asked a stupid question of me. I understand. You really need to seek professional medical help.

26. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/1/2018 10:31:26 PM)
     Message ID #296014

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #296011 )  Back To All Messages

As it turns out, I was simply commenting on an article in the Times. (It seems the Grand Pooh Bear of Iran also credits the new folks in DC for raising hell in his desert)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/world/middleeast/iran-protests-khamenei.html

Editor's Note: Seems your link is no longer working. However, the reason it went to the bin as the original link was WAY too long. As I have said to everyone at least 20 times before ANYTHING after the "?" on a link is junk and should be removed. Everything after the question mark is referring information. (Facebook, your email, another site, etc).

SO IN THE FUTURE everyone. when you past a link, look for the question mark "?" and remove the question mark and everything after it. You will then have a short link and not one twenty lines long that our servers think is some sort of attack.

27. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 1:10:39 PM)
     Message ID #296016

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296014 )  Back To All Messages

Any you think this is a good thing? Or, you really have no idea whether it is a good or bad thing, like the little hands guy, himself, who is equally clueless.

28. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 11:48:32 AM)
     Message ID #296017

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #296016 )  Back To All Messages

The status quo is a bad thing. Whatever this may be... it is a change in the status quo.

Things could get worse... they could flop a rag over your head and beg to be led into hell.

29. Patricia Pomerleau CEOExpressSelect Member
     Forum Moderator
     (1/2/2018 11:43:08 AM)
     Message ID #296018

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296017 )  Back To All Messages

Please read the note below your post above. Changing your name to "night rider" doesn't change the fact that your link it too long.

It's technical, not personal.

Everything after a "?" in a link (if it exists) should be removed if you have a very long link. Not a big deal. We have a link character limit to stop bad players.

30. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 11:27:25 AM)
     Message ID #296020

This message is in response to Patricia Pomerleau ( message id #296018 )  Back To All Messages

Noted. (...and here I thought my sharp wit and penetrating perceptions had simply become to much for you to bear.)

31. D James
     (1/1/2018 10:50:13 PM)
     Message ID #296032

This message is in response to Patricia Pomerleau ( message id #296018 )  Back To All Messages

www.tinyurl.com

That miraculous link seems to be beyond the ability of plagiarists or the lazy to use.

Mr. Meyer is, in fact, a major proponent. I give him major props for at least that.

32. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 4:13:04 PM)
     Message ID #296052

This message is in response to Patricia Pomerleau ( message id #296018 )  Back To All Messages

There's one Very Major problem w/ using the tinyurl service and it goes as follows ...

By using the service you misdirect every link so NO ONE knows where they are actually being sent when they click on the tinyurl link.

In today's day and age of Phishing, Hacking, and all the rest of the less than honorable schemes to make money, steal identities, etc that are let run rampant on the web it's, at least in my case and opinion, far far too risky to use the service because of the possibility it got hacked or something.

Now I'm not claiming anyone on the forum would intentionally do something like that but the tinyurl service itself could get hacked and no one would know until it was too late. That's reason one.

And the second reason is that in order to get in the habit of not making that mistake on other websites, it has to be practiced on ALL websites and OTHER websites might have someone hanging around who is less scrupulous than those here.

33. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 12:55:09 PM)
     Message ID #296021

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296017 )  Back To All Messages

Robert, you have posted a lot of dumb things, but this latest post reveals how dumb you are. You basically are saying that anything that happens is better than the current situation which is totally ridiculous. War with Iran would be much more costly in men and treasure that war with Iraq with equally bad outcomes.

34. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 12:34:43 PM)
     Message ID #296023

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #296021 )  Back To All Messages

I'm going to run with it anyway. I may not be privy to the action... but I trust the Orange Knight to rear up his trusty steed and slay the heathen beast.

35. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 11:46:19 AM)
     Message ID #296025

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296023 )  Back To All Messages

The bone spur guy? The one whose totally military knowledge was accrued at the NY Military Academy as a teenager? The one who knows more than the generals, but has been led around by the nose by Putin, foxed by both President Xi Jinping of China and the Supreme leader of N Korea? Is that the guy we are talking about? The one whom Secretary of State Tillerson called a moron? The one who lies 80% of the time?

36. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/1/2018 10:57:47 PM)
     Message ID #296026

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #296025 )  Back To All Messages

Yup. That's him. I have trust in few things... but I trust him.

37. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 2:16:28 PM)
     Message ID #296027

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296026 )  Back To All Messages

Well, Robert, you are clearly beyond the help of even expert medical intervention.

38. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/1/2018 11:07:46 PM)
     Message ID #296029

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #296027 )  Back To All Messages

Are you a Dr. now, too?

Message edited by user at 1/2/2018 3:13:48 AM

39. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 3:21:45 PM)
     Message ID #295998

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295995 )  Back To All Messages

The bone spur guy appears to take his tweeter comments from Faux and Friends cues: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-seems-to-align-twitter-attacks-with-fox-and-friends-updates/ar-BBHMNdz

Message edited by user at 1/2/2018 3:24:12 PM

40. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 2:30:27 PM)
     Message ID #296007

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295995 )  Back To All Messages

Careful Robert. You're tempting me to list all (or a great number at any rate) of that "elected official"'s foibles of which you so reverently speak - and there are many from which to choose.

For now I'll simply remind you that he's deeply deeply flawed (IMO even more deeply than most old-world politicos are) and we'll all end up far worse for the wear by the time he's out of office even if it's a premature exit.

I'll also remind you that while I certainly did NOT vote for his main competition, I didn't vote for him either (neither last time nor in any possible future endeavors either). Remember my opinion (two words) of him.

41. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 2:28:23 PM)
     Message ID #296009

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #296007 )  Back To All Messages

With all due respect Tams...

If you appreciate the problem - and you didn't vote for the Don... and you didn't vote for the hellcat...

...what exactly did you do about the problem?

42. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/1/2018 11:12:11 PM)
     Message ID #296037

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296009 )  Back To All Messages

I voted Write-In since neither of the two (DJT or HRC) were worthy of being voted on in the first place. They were BOTH Losers! (for themselves, for "We, The People" and for the country as a whole).


No offense Robert, but ...

It was the only decent choice left to those of us who were still Independent enough to realize the 2016 Election was a Crisis-in-the-Making.

43. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 3:27:18 PM)
     Message ID #296041

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #296037 )  Back To All Messages

Has Mr. Write-in made the difference you were looking for? So far, I am satisfied with the changes my choice has made.

44. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 2:45:13 PM)
     Message ID #296053

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296041 )  Back To All Messages

If your "choice" was DJT I'm surprised you haven't yet wet your pants because of his infantile, undisciplined, psycho, taunting behavior.

To paraphrase (although it's close): Trump says "his 'Nuclear Button' is 'bigger' and more powerful than Kim Jong Un's"!!!!!!!!!


Are you kidding me?????????

Taunting is one thing but to do it w/ nuke weapons??????? And to do it w/ someone who is as paranoid, if not even moreso, than Trump himself???? As far as I'm concerned it's behavior like that that is just proving he's (Trump's) ready for a rubber room.

And yet again Robert ... I'm holding my fire on all the adjectives I could unleash about Trump WRT the ones I and many others consider him qualified to be described w/ and/or by.

---------------

And to answer your question ...

My Write-In didn't win but at least w/ respect to my vote I can sleep easy at night. On the other hand, w/ Trump "in command" I don't. And I wouldn't sleep peacefully at night if HRC had won either so that rounds out the trifecta.

45. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/1/2018 11:36:55 PM)
     Message ID #296054

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #296053 )  Back To All Messages

That would all be great, Tams... if only this was all about Donald Trump.

You have bitten into the bait of the Donald Trump persona. Now you are just one more fish dangling from a hook.

Pay attention to what is happening - not to the colorful illusions that are being painted around it. You are a hell of a lot smarter than Robb. It is sad to watch you dance to his tune.

46. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 7:29:32 PM)
     Message ID #296055

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296054 )  Back To All Messages

Despite the booming economy, there is widespread dissatisfaction with the GOP. Why? The dim donald. Republicans have become as alarmed and embarrassed by the bone spur guy as the Dems.

47. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 2:56:53 PM)
     Message ID #296059

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #296055 )  Back To All Messages

And to think they are only the second worst Party!

48. Douglas Robb CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 1:13:30 AM)
     Message ID #296060

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #296059 )  Back To All Messages

True. More and more voters are becoming independents, and Independents really dislike trump.

49. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 3:00:38 PM)
     Message ID #296057

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296054 )  Back To All Messages

You are probably right about Tams being smarter than I am. However, you are the worst judge possible of anyone's knowledge since you have admitted you are clueless and base your support totally on trust. Who can trust someone who lies 80% of the time?

50. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 9:42:57 AM)
     Message ID #296062

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296054 )  Back To All Messages

Robert,

Sadly you should be ashamed of yourself - yourself buying into DJT's incessant blatherings about pretty much anything and everything as you are.

And "No", I'm not in the least bit sorry I am on the side of the fence I am. DJT will end up getting this country into a nuclear war if he's not stopped because pretty soon he'll misjudge someone and shoot off his mouth and someone else (maybe rocket man himself) will just say "that's it!, here goes!", and so I hope he is (stopped) sooner as opposed to later.

His mouth overloads his nether region daily and sometimes hourly and the sooner he's replaced the better ALL of us are gonna be.

And JFTR, Pence used to be someone who I thought pretty highly of but after watching his behavior over the last year (sucking up as he has), I have lost faith in him as well.

And FTR Robert, I AM paying attention (to what DJT does and says, not what the MSM says). Are you??????

Thank you for those few kind words and I dance to no one's tune, save my own. Thank you very much.

51. M Bathurst
     (1/2/2018 3:25:41 PM)
     Message ID #296063

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #296054 )  Back To All Messages

After bastardizing the English language, the Left loves to hang on the words of their handlers - look at how they swooned over Big Ears great speeches (or rather readings - speaking "free-hand" he was in the class of Pres. Bush). But, they ignored what this little bastard was doing behind their backs (ACA and its lies, Fast & Furious, Benghazi, collusion with the Russians during the election; or non-election of Ms. Orange Jumpsuit). It is now the same with Pres. Trump; focus on his words; but, not on what is happening behind the scenes - improved economic activity as a result of "deleting" bad regulations, the Supreme Court, getting the federal agencies to do what they were created to do. I love the folks here that think Pres. Trump is Putin BFF. Simply repeating what their handlers tell them to say. I would gather that two examples would give them pause - first, military assistance to Ukraine and second, improve energy production in the US and the ability to export said energy. It is hard for any sane person to argue either of these events are making Putin happy.

Pres. Trump may not be the most "graceful" person; but, he has been effective. Many want to give Big Ears the credit for the economy; what a joke. During 2016, the economy was sputtering at best; and, with the strong expectation that Ms. Orange Jumpsuit was going to win; there was no positive energy in the economy. We were told how the market was going to crash, blah, blah, blah if Mr. Trump became Pres. Trump. Sitting near 25,000 is hardly a crash. Oh, it will come down as the market deals with the unwinding of Big Ears' QE program with rising interest rates. There is energy in the economy because the corporate/business world believes the weight of Big Ears' "let's kill the economy" is gone.

I also find it interesting that Mr. Bixby stated in an earlier post that Pres. Trump is doing many of the things he thinks should be done; but, that he is the wrong person to do it. WTF. If Big Ears had done some of these things I would have been congratulating him for doing the right thing. He goes on to say, Pres. Trump is simply unqualified to be President. And, Big Ears was? Look at the backgrounds of both gentlemen. Pres. Trump was not my first choice. However, he clearly was the only person could have beat Ms. Orange Jumpsuit and do what is being done. So, if he is here for 4 years or 8 years; I don't care. He will make some mistakes; but, he will be the reason many more serious mistakes were not made by the Progressives.

PS: You are being very nice to Mr. Bixby. I think he likes dancing in Robb's World.

52. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 3:01:47 PM)
     Message ID #296065

This message is in response to M Bathurst ( message id #296063 )  Back To All Messages

"I also find it interesting that Mr. Bixby stated in an earlier post that Pres. Trump is doing many of the things he thinks should be done; but, that he is the wrong person to do it. WTF. If Big Ears had done some of these things I would have been congratulating him for doing the right thing. He goes on to say, Pres. Trump is simply unqualified to be President. And, Big Ears was? Look at the backgrounds of both gentlemen. Pres. Trump was not my first choice. However, he clearly was the only person could have beat Ms. Orange Jumpsuit and do what is being done. So, if he is here for 4 years or 8 years; I don't care. He will make some mistakes; but, he will be the reason many more serious mistakes were not made by the Progressives.

PS: You are being very nice to Mr. Bixby. I think he likes dancing in Robb's World.
"


M,

Point #1: I can't count the number of times (too many to count) I've said I didn't support BHO either and if you've read my previous posts in previous topics as closely as you claim to have read my previous posts on this topic, then you already know the truth of what I say - so you're pushing close to getting a real earful by claiming or inferring I support BHO.

Point #2: The same can and has been said by me about "dancing TO anyone's song or IN anyone's world" and again, if you've read my posts as closely as you claim, you know this to be true as well.

Further than what I've said here I won't go because your claims are unsubstantiated and unworthy of more response.

53. M Bathurst
     (1/3/2018 2:37:01 PM)
     Message ID #296066

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #296065 )  Back To All Messages



Message edited by user at 1/3/2018 2:39:10 PM

54. Domenick Aulozzi CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 11:45:17 AM)
     Message ID #296058

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #296053 )  Back To All Messages

Tams,

I understand the urge to write in a candidate because you don't like the options, but I have always felt that when you do that, you are merely forcing everyone else to make your decision for you.

Like it or not we have a two-party system in this country. By voting for a write-in candidate you are knowingly not making a bit of difference at all. That is fine in itself, but it does not absolve you from any responsibility for what the outcome brings about. You are just as responsible for Trump getting elected as any of us that voted for him are.

The choice was Trump or Hillary. It does not matter whether you liked the choice or not, one of them was going to become president and you merely punted your choice. I would encourage you to think about that when you are tempted to deride others for making a choice.

55. Noel Meyer
     (1/3/2018 10:23:34 AM)
     Message ID #296061

This message is in response to Domenick Aulozzi ( message id #296058 )  Back To All Messages

"Like it or not we have a two-party system in this country"

With Libertarians, Independents there appear to be a host of candidates, alas poorly funded and without the necessary resources, but more than just the choice of the lesser of two evils.

Trump is not a Republican as he and Bannon appear to be destroying the Republican Brand with every action they take.

56. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 3:28:26 PM)
     Message ID #296064

This message is in response to Domenick Aulozzi ( message id #296058 )  Back To All Messages

Domenick,

Much truth in what you have said but there is also much to be said (and truth of a different sort as well) for taking a stand even when you know in advance that you are and will remain in a minority.

That is essentially what I did (taking a stand) and I am happy, calm and at ease w/ the choice I made, even though I may have contributed some to DJT's election in some manner. I accept that as my responsibility and will live with it in peace. I'd much rather take my stand on values I can sleep peacefully w/ afterwards than align myself w/ an action I cannot live w/ after the fact.

Yeah, that may be an "old fashioned" virtue but it's one I've had since I was born and so I think I'll keep it.

--------------

And a couple more things Domenick ...

1) I didn't have an "urge to write-in a candidate". I thought long and hard about what I would do and that thought process began long before election day (about just the facts to which you have referred).

2) Yes, we have a two-party system in this country -- for now, but if I have anything to say about it that'll change to either:
  • A multi-party system; or
  • A two-party system w/ a BINDING "None of the Above" Option (on every ballot; for every office; during every election) where everything goes back to ground zero and restarts w/ TOTALLY NEW candidates when/if "None" wins.

57. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 3:06:02 PM)
     Message ID #296067

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #296053 )  Back To All Messages

Dear Tams,

I live in Massachusetts, my vote doesn't count.

If I vote with the masses of group thinkers, I'm wasting fossil fuels getting there, if I vote contra group think, I will lose anyway. One off year election had 18 candidates for positions I have no idea what they are. 14 were unopposed, all Dems. What's a conservative to do?

A few years back I bumped into Kasich on the street in Columbus, I said "Hey Gov, how ya doing?"

He said you're from Boston, right? How'd you know who I am?

I told him there are actually 18 Republicans in MA, if you count my dog!

I am proud to say I have never voted for a Kennedy, nor Barney Frank.

58. Rick T CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 3:28:24 PM)
     Message ID #296069

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #296067 )  Back To All Messages

Naw, you'd have to live in a state that gerrymanders or suppresses the vote for your vote not to count or be counted. Your vote counts but it only counts as one vote, your neighbor's votes count too. You seem to have a problem with that.

Message edited by user at 1/3/2018 3:30:40 PM

59. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 2:47:13 PM)
     Message ID #296071

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #296067 )  Back To All Messages

Hi Thomas,

Yeah, helluva situation ain't it?????

While I'm no died in the wool Republican, I am a right-leaning Independent which does no good where I live here in Texas.

Register as an Independent in Texas and you'll have nothing, zip, zero, nada, nyet to vote on in the primaries so I keep my Republican registration and just do the best I can.

Please note the colloquial spellings below if you please ...

Not all Repugnicans have the best ideas and neither do all the Donkeycrats so that's why I'm an Independent (AKA RINO).

Oh well. Carry on!!!!

Message edited by user at 1/3/2018 2:49:06 PM

60. D Robb
     (1/3/2018 1:31:21 PM)
     Message ID #295956

This message is in response to Richard Frontera ( message id #295953 )  Back To All Messages

I disagree. The GOP tried to take away healthcare by repealing the ACA. How can you possibly attempt to say they share the goal of providing health care to everyone?
They want to use money presently devoted to healthcare to provide tax cuts to the rich.

61. D Robb
     (1/3/2018 1:30:27 PM)
     Message ID #295957

This message is in response to Richard Frontera ( message id #295953 )  Back To All Messages

The reality is people will lose their insurance because removing young healthy people from the pool will raise the cost (premiums) for everyone else which will make it unaffordable for some. Medicare for all is the only long term solution.

62. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 1:11:32 PM)
     Message ID #295958

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295957 )  Back To All Messages

The fact that the program cannot survive without the funds does not justify the government dictating that unwilling citizens must pay them... any more than a thieves desire for money justifies pulling a gun on someone who has it. You are conceptually adrift and morally bankrupt.

63. D Robb
     (1/3/2018 12:31:34 PM)
     Message ID #295959

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295958 )  Back To All Messages

Robert, you need to read more and take more time with your posts. I was explaining why taking away the mandate will result in people who want insurance losing it.

64. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 11:28:58 AM)
     Message ID #295960

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295959 )  Back To All Messages

You cannot lose what you cannot afford to buy in the first place.

65. Rick T CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 11:01:47 AM)
     Message ID #295961

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295960 )  Back To All Messages

why not?

66. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 4:19:21 PM)
     Message ID #295962

This message is in response to Rick T ( message id #295961 )  Back To All Messages

Stupid, but funny (though I realize you meant it in all seriousness.).

67. Rick T CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 3:39:03 PM)
     Message ID #295963

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295962 )  Back To All Messages

You're stupid and pathetic so, answer the question

68. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 1:50:00 PM)
     Message ID #295964

This message is in response to Rick T ( message id #295963 )  Back To All Messages

I'm sorry Rick... you don't present enough substance to function as a convenient segue anymore.

Message edited by user at 1/3/2018 1:50:30 PM

69. Rick T CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 12:12:31 PM)
     Message ID #295965

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #295964 )  Back To All Messages

That coming from a dipsh#t like you? Don't make me laugh.

70. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 4:23:48 PM)
     Message ID #295969

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295957 )  Back To All Messages

There is perhaps only a handful of Economists who have studied healthcare as a single issue, one is J.Gruber, MIT. He was engaged by Romney to put together Romneycare which drove the uninsured rate in MA from 13% down to 3-4%.

His recent study claims that the tax penalty effect on ACHA was nil. In other words you can force someone who doesn't need a product to buy it. Why should I buy car insurance if I don't own a car?

Gruber claims the penalty would have had to be 1:1 before adverse selection fades away. So enticing young healthy bodies into the individual markets, doesn't work.

A much better approach would be the opposite: incentivize; allow non-employer groups to form, allow insurers to cross state lines, and allow defined benefit plans.

Why shouldn't a 28 year old single male be allowed to buy a healthcare policy from AAA, underwritten by a Company in Iowa, that doesn't include maternity or mental health?

Obamacare killed all those approaches and instead used the stick, rather than a carrot.

Epic fail. The individual mandate is still intact for another 12 months, those lunk heads in DC now have 1 year to fix it.

Let's see who stands up and leads the way. My guess is they do nothing except campaign for their own jobs.

71. Noel Meyer
     (1/2/2018 3:50:19 PM)
     Message ID #295970

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #295969 )  Back To All Messages

Do you think it's more effective to be for or against something or someone?

Nice example of being against something,

BTW- "those lunk heads in DC now have 1 year to fix it. " Those lunk heads have had over 8 years to fix it but chose like you to be AGAINST universal healthcare and CAMPAIGN against it rather than fix it.

"My guess is they do nothing except campaign for their own jobs." Safe guess as HISTORY shows Republicans have done exactly that especially since the election of 2016 and Congressional action by Republicans in all of 2017

72. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/3/2018 1:52:18 PM)
     Message ID #295981

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #295970 )  Back To All Messages

Meyer, "universal healthcare" is not a reality in this country, now or for the foreseeable future.

"Lunk heads" are both GOP and Democrats, no distinction there

What is your healthcare solution? And please stay within the dynamics and parameters of the US healthcare marketplace...


change the rules M.

73. M Bathurst
     (1/3/2018 12:20:18 PM)
     Message ID #295983

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #295981 )  Back To All Messages

Quit referring to Mr. Meyer as M. If you fail to do so, I am going to sentence you to a month on a deserted island with Ms. Clinton, Mr. Robb and Mr. T - an no internet connection.

M

74. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 3:58:22 PM)
     Message ID #295984

This message is in response to M Bathurst ( message id #295983 )  Back To All Messages

Everybody knows you are Bs.

75. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 4:02:14 PM)
     Message ID #295989

This message is in response to M Bathurst ( message id #295983 )  Back To All Messages

Cruel and unusual, he doesn't deserve the pronoun Mr.

76. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 4:16:30 PM)
     Message ID #295977

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #295969 )  Back To All Messages

Thomas, when we have multiple successful examples of single payer healthcare systems to choose from - systems that provide better care than the US at one half to one third the cost per patient, per year - why do you persist in trying to create the wheel? Why wouldn't we want to choose the best from the multitude of good examples we have to choose from?

77. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 4:06:01 PM)
     Message ID #295978

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295977 )  Back To All Messages

In this country where 165 million on Employer Sponsored Insurance plans, both in the private and public sectors?

Better and less costly are red herrings

78. D Robb
     (1/3/2018 9:24:09 AM)
     Message ID #295980

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #295978 )  Back To All Messages

Thomas, you can remain in denial, and dissemble and distract, but you cannot change FACTs.

Message edited by user at 1/3/2018 9:46:16 AM

79. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 6:02:01 PM)
     Message ID #295990

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295977 )  Back To All Messages

What do you suggest the Gov't do with 165 million folks on ESI?

80. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 4:20:38 PM)
     Message ID #295993

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #295990 )  Back To All Messages

Why can't they integrated in? I don't see a problem.

81. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 4:15:11 PM)
     Message ID #296019

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295993 )  Back To All Messages

Walk me through that scenario........

82. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 4:32:58 PM)
     Message ID #295967

This message is in response to Richard Frontera ( message id #295949 )  Back To All Messages

Finally some sanity!

83. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 5:00:44 PM)
     Message ID #295852

This message is in response to Patricia Pomerleau ( message id #295051 )  Back To All Messages

There's no question in my mind. Opposition shows division and we are much stronger united, together. Abortion is an example. If we all worked together to reduce the need for abortion we could accomplish something. Cutting the social safety net, reducing access to contraception makes the problem worse. Together we stand.

84. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (1/2/2018 5:04:45 PM)
     Message ID #295854

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #295852 )  Back To All Messages

Robb, a perfect example of what I am talking about...100% emotion.

Making strategic decisions does not mean one lacks empathy, in fact in most cases it demonstrates a core of values. Tactical thinking is short term, you can never put all the fires out. Strategic thinking is preventing the fire.

85. D Robb
     (1/2/2018 5:07:06 PM)
     Message ID #295855

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #295854 )  Back To All Messages

Please explain the ‘logic’ in trump’s foreign policy. What does the US gain withdrawing from international agreements and isolating itself? What did the US gain by vowing to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem, and having the entire Security Council vote against the US? What does the US gain when the bone spur guy acts like a school yard bully against NK instead of being calm and logical? Explain the logic of the border wall? Walls don’t work and the Texas representatives with districts along the border don’t want it. I have never heard trump described as logical. He is all emotion, and divisive.
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