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Do you think that the Trump Tax plan will help the middle class?

Yes
No
I have no idea



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1. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/21/2017 5:58:03 PM)
     Message ID #294081

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294071 )  Back To All Messages

According to my read David ...

First, Congress has the authority to levy a National Sales Tax w/o the repeal of the XVI Amendment (see 2nd link).

Second, by way of a "Convention of the States" there also would be no need to repeal the XVI Amendment since the "Convention of the States" would be acting in the stead of Congress in the first place (see 1st link).




See here (Article V): https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlev


See here (XVI Amendment): https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxvi


And just to clean your shorts and giggle, here's the link to the entire website: https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/overview

2. D James
     (11/21/2017 6:47:29 PM)
     Message ID #294085

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #294081 )  Back To All Messages

Tams, yes, Congress does have have the ability to levy a national sales tax or a VAT (totally different) without repeal of 16th Amendment. That's precisely why it needs repeal - do you want separate means of collections running in parallel for the Feds to feast off of? I didn't think so. As for the Convention of States, while they are acting in the stead of Congress on a very select group of items that have been set for discussion, that same Convention also has the ability to repeal the Amendment and enact a new Consitutional Amendment. That is, at the end of the day, one of its major functions.

I know one of your favorite sayings concerns "We the People". I agree. That's why I am with you in the guise of this absolutely essential tool to put the enumerated and implied powers back in their correct lanes. Cheers.

3. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/21/2017 7:53:36 PM)
     Message ID #294088

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294085 )  Back To All Messages

David,

Well ... I guess maybe I'm missing something because when I said originally that "Step 1: Trash the entire CURRENT Tax Structure (incl. ALL exemptions, exceptions, loopholes, etc);" was necessary, it seemed to me that would supercede all the rest of the taxes. So how does that give Congress any additional authority than what they'd have anyway????

I mean whether you repeal and re-enact a NEW version of the XVI Amendment or keep the original, the Congress will still maintain the same authority. How does repeal and replace of XVI Amendment giver Congress any "separate means of collections running in parallel for the Feds to feast off of?"?????

Cheers back @ ya.

Message edited by user at 11/21/2017 7:53:57 PM

4. D James
     (11/21/2017 10:01:40 PM)
     Message ID #294089

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #294088 )  Back To All Messages

Repeal of the 16th Amendment is the only Way you eliminate the Fed income tax. Without doing so the income tax can be resurrected by the stroke of a pen at political whim. If your means of collection is The Fair Tax or something like it (national sales tax, NOT a VAT) the elements of the current tax system which we despise would necessarily be done away with. What you propose then, and in what I concur, is trashing the current tax structure. The Convention of States could do that in common with repeal of the 16th A and replacing it with a superseding 16th A with the enactment of a national sales tax, along with the 28th Amendment, a Balanced Budget Amendment.

5. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/22/2017 12:04:34 AM)
     Message ID #294090

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294089 )  Back To All Messages

XXVIII Amendment -- Yeah, no brainer ... I get that.

But I still don't see where repeal & replace of the (current) XVI Amendment is necessary to do away w/ the govt's ability to enact an Income Tax along w/ a Consumption Tax. The govt. could re-enact an Income Tax (along w/ the Consumption Tax) under the auspices of the NEW XVI Amendment just as easily.

Message edited by user at 11/22/2017 12:05:00 AM

6. D James
     (11/22/2017 5:11:35 AM)
     Message ID #294091

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #294090 )  Back To All Messages

Wrong. The 16th Amendment specifically enacts the Income Tax. Prior to it there was none. All revenues were derived from tariffs, excise taxes and other specific levies.

7. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/22/2017 9:15:35 AM)
     Message ID #294098

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294091 )  Back To All Messages

OK, OK, my bad. I went back and re-read it all again and see your point. And Yes, I know I'm a touch hard-headed at times (but I consider that a good thing).

ps (to above): I've gone back and amended my original post (#20) to include repeal of the XVI Amendment as part of the multi-step process.

To reiterate and sum up ...
  • Yes, a 28th Amendment is necessary for the Balanced Budget part of things (but we both already agreed about that);
  • Yes, the 16th Amendment will require being repealed (to eliminate the ability of govt. to collect Income Taxes);
  • Still not sure a NEW (version of the) 16th Amendment will be required (but it might be easier for the purposes of limiting the govt's taxing authority) as the Consumption Tax could be created as a subsection to the Balanced Budget Amendment in the 28th (which would formally tie the two together).


Message edited by user at 11/22/2017 9:21:04 AM

8. D James
     (11/22/2017 1:41:25 PM)
     Message ID #294113

This message is in response to Tams Bixby ( message id #294098 )  Back To All Messages

And guess what? Your state legislature and governor are four square behind the Convention of States!

Good show.

9. Tams Bixby CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/22/2017 3:41:45 PM)
     Message ID #294123

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294113 )  Back To All Messages

Its' time is looooong past due.
  1-9 of 9