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Do you think that the Trump Tax plan will help the middle class?

Yes
No
I have no idea



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1. D James
     (11/25/2017 8:54:59 PM)
     Message ID #294205

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Back to subject. First, a correction: it’s not a “Trump Plan”. Second, here’s a side by side analysis of the current House and Senate proposals:

http://dailysignal.com/wp-content/uploads/DS-tax-bill-comparison-v2.jpg

Have a good day.

2. Noel Meyer
     (11/26/2017 7:34:45 AM)
     Message ID #294206

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294205 )  Back To All Messages

"Back to subject. First, a correction: it’s not a “Trump Plan”."

1. So when the Republican Congress passes something, it won't be a Trump victory and when the Republican Congress fails to pass something it won't be a Trump failure.

I thought Trump said he ran things, "the art of the deal" and all that.

2. The whole "Repeal and Replace" thing that failed, so all that pressure and name calling, that also was NOT a Trump plan?

3. So side-by-side, both plans $uck,, both plans lack consensus among the parties and both plans really do nothing for the middle class as it does for corporations and the wealthiest Americans.

3. D James
     (11/25/2017 9:52:09 PM)
     Message ID #294207

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #294206 )  Back To All Messages

Do you Simply roll out your talking points from 10 years ago and fill in the blanks?

Just wondering.....

4. Noel Meyer
     (11/26/2017 7:50:47 AM)
     Message ID #294208

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294207 )  Back To All Messages

D James -

No need to wonder. The results of the "Do nothing/not just "no" but Hell NO" Congress and Trump's failures are plain for all to see.

Perhaps you could list the 'achievements' of this Republican Controlled Government? Didn't think so.

10 years, huh? Seems like a long time to allow failed behavior, but then the deplorables elected a rookie puss* grabber to learn 'ON THE JOB' how to become President of the United States when the guy has no idea how our government is supposed to work. No wonder Republicans are being beaten-up by Bannon and Evangelicals on the outside and can not govern even with majorities in the House, the Senate and the White House inside Washington running the government so poorly even their own members can not in good conscious vote for their failed plans.

No, not just the constant repetition of failure after failure; not just that you can not point to achievements of your 'art of the deal' egotistical abuser; but new crimes and misdemeanors as the Trump administration goes through scandals, firings, and criminal investigations.

Go figure...........

Message edited by user at 11/26/2017 7:58:19 AM

5. D James
     (11/25/2017 10:54:15 PM)
     Message ID #294211

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #294208 )  Back To All Messages

Yet, nary a peep during the last regime.

No need to wonder. Indeed.

6. Noel Meyer
     (11/26/2017 9:46:09 AM)
     Message ID #294219

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294211 )  Back To All Messages

One can live in the past like the Republicans. So many investigations into Hillary many more than Trump and the Republicans have allowed into the Russian interference in the 2016 election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZAPwfrtAFY

Watch this video, you can speed through much of it but it has a solid premise, Trump and his supporters have three main tricks/strategies to avoid accountability for his actions.

Instead of answering questions about now, today, his own failures - Trump and his supporters (like D James) attempt to change the discussion by inserting "Whataboutit" and then accusing others diverting the discussion to others instead of owning up to his actions.

Attacking the media is another tactic, belittling his critics and making statements with no proof at all (like "Obama tapped the wires of Trump towers" or 'More equivalency between totally separate actions as morally equivalent'

How can you "drain the swamp" when you muddy the discussion hiding open and transparent government. Trump's "Trolling" on Twitter represents some of the most insane comments made with absolutely no proof, no support, just spewing hatred to his base.

7. D James
     (11/26/2017 8:42:20 AM)
     Message ID #294223

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #294219 )  Back To All Messages

"...hiding open and transparent government..."

It seems we just got through eight years of that. Both parties have deeds in trust to The Swamp. I provide an objective side by side analysis of th House v the Senate proposals. You come back with your fill in the blank talking points.

By the way, I think both proposals are NOT tax reform. But I've stated my piece earlier and often regarding what is real reform and not merely a shell game and more redistribution. The Rs just want to slow it down but it's nothing more than what has been going on for over a half century. When 47% of the income earners pay ZERO Fed tax and the top 20% pay about 87%, there's something askew, don't you think? Speaking of, do you still pay? I wonder if your circle fest buddy Rahb pays anything. In about three years when I have to initiate minimum distribution from IRA accounts I'll be back in the 35% bracket. Oh well. So much for "retirement". What say you?

8. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 4:48:04 AM)
     Message ID #294224

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294223 )  Back To All Messages

After becoming an adult, something many on this forum have mentally not achieved, the only time I didn’t pay taxes was my first tour in Vietnam when I was making $222.30 a month with $115 jump pay and $65 hostile fire pay and entitled to a $500 a month tax exemption.
All modern, civilized, western countries have always had a progressive tax system with the rich being more heavily taxed than the average wage earner. There is sufficient personal wealth in the world to pay the world’s sovereign debt THREE TIMES OVER.
The U.S.—with $63.5 trillion in total private wealth—holds the largest amount of any country in the world. But the U.S. has the largest wealth inequality gap of 55 countries studied. The problem in our country is not over taxation. The problem is under taxation and concentration of the country’s wealth in a few, the top 2%.

9. D James
     (11/26/2017 3:44:44 AM)
     Message ID #294225

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294224 )  Back To All Messages

Nothing precludes you from making a voluntary payment c/o the U.S. Treasury for any taxes for which you feel you'd like to be remit and have some compulsion derived from guilt and/or stupidity.

I, for one, pay an amount that is and remains significant. I will always pay my share and feel not at all compelled to pay one dime more. You do as you feel best. Your prior comments from polls past inidcate you are all about "free". That's symptomatic of a socialist taker, not a productive maker. I won't even accept a senior discount. To me it's an insult.

The top two % income earners of taxpayers you cite pay approximately a quarter of all Federal taxes.

There is no problem with under taxation but in runaway spending on programs and projects on matters which were not part of the deal set forth in the Constitution.
Revenue has and always has increased upon tax cuts. Unfortunately government spending has always outstripped that revenue increase.

When you mentally become an adult, let us know. You are oh so smug in your arrogance to make your prissy little snark at others you don't know and are frankly non meritorious to make their acquaintance.

By the way, jump pay was $110.00 per month, NOT $115.00.

Mr Bathurst has your number, by the way. Bass on 8 pound monofilament. Just saying. Fahrbach has been trying to throw you back but you keep coming to the surface like a turd in a punchbowl.

10. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 3:28:08 PM)
     Message ID #294226

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294225 )  Back To All Messages

Your inability to intelligent debate points has been repeatedly displayed. Your hero, the self-confessed, serial sex criminal, doesn't pay his fair share. He repeatedly lies. One of those lies is that the US is the most heavily taxed country in the world. Not true. US taxes are low relative to those in other developed countries. In 2014, US taxes at all levels of government represented 26 percent of GDP, compared with an average of 34 percent of GDP for the EU. They also provide far more in benefits to their workers.

11. D James
     (11/26/2017 8:28:27 AM)
     Message ID #294232

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294226 )  Back To All Messages

You remain a reliable shill for your leftist handlers. When you have an original thought that isn't from a script ginned up by some Soros, Steyer or CPUSA funded medium, let us know.

Message edited by user at 11/26/2017 8:28:47 AM

12. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 7:36:18 AM)
     Message ID #294238

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294232 )  Back To All Messages

Tell me, James, did your teachers accept the drivel from your delusional mind, or did they require that you have a factual basis for your answers and papers? I have a factual basis for my posts. I know that hurts because it contradicts what you want to believe, but part of becoming an adult is to put aside your fairy tales and live in the real world.

13. D James
     (11/26/2017 6:32:19 AM)
     Message ID #294240

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294238 )  Back To All Messages

Unlike what your "school" apparently accepted, prevarication and plagiarism isn't part of my lexicon or product.

But have a good day, Major Robb. Or is it Light Bird? Right now "deadbeat" is more descriptive.

14. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 3:56:40 PM)
     Message ID #294241

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294240 )  Back To All Messages

James, you are an angry, unhappy dude. Prejudice, hatred, misogyny, and defending the self-confessed, serial sexual predator can do that.

Message edited by user at 11/26/2017 4:07:38 PM

15. D James
     (11/26/2017 9:38:29 AM)
     Message ID #294244

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294241 )  Back To All Messages

Hey “dude”, I wasn’t the one posting like he had a case of the Aztec two step on Thanksgiving Day.

Glad you got your grad school out of the way c/o the taxpayer. In one of the few things I’d have in common with you, so did I. Of course, unlike you, I’m grateful and never looked at the GI Bill as something I was owed. Bless your heart, Rob.

16. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 9:07:55 AM)
     Message ID #294245

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294244 )  Back To All Messages

You are one unhappy dude. I didn't use the GI Bill. Mine was paid for while I was on active duty, between tours in Vietnam. You do far too much ASSuming.

17. D James
     (11/26/2017 11:17:52 AM)
     Message ID #294249

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294245 )  Back To All Messages

Hey "Dude", (or in your case maybe we should drop the "e"?), I never said you used anything - I told you what I did. Using the GI Bill meant I didn't have any incurred statutory service obligation and could choose my future as I saw fit. And I heard you were in Vietnam? Seems some nimrod keeps lording it over some of us who also had that all expense paid trip to SE Asia and don't have an issue with brain reflux others have.

So, did you have turkey or did you just eat crow on T'giving?

18. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 12:25:32 PM)
     Message ID #294250

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294249 )  Back To All Messages

I realize that you don't read your posts because it is too painful. Imagine how painful it is to the rest of us? "Glad you got your grad school out of the way c/o the taxpayer. In one of the few things I’d have in common with you, so did I."
If you spent a tenth of the time you spend trying to find "gotch ya's" on trying to put together intelligent posts we all would benefit. But when you are defending the undefendable, what else can you do? Defending a self-confessed serial sexual criminal, a pedophile, and a dog of a tax reform bill, you need to try to change the subject, don't you?

19. D James
     (11/26/2017 12:52:02 PM)
     Message ID #294252

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294250 )  Back To All Messages

You first.....

20. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 1:55:00 PM)
     Message ID #294253

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294252 )  Back To All Messages

James, when are going to learn to stop digging when you are in a hole? Sit and stay.

21. M Bathurst
     (11/26/2017 1:53:37 PM)
     Message ID #294255

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294252 )  Back To All Messages

Don't hold your breath.....

22. M Bathurst
     (11/26/2017 1:24:17 PM)
     Message ID #294256

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294252 )  Back To All Messages

The troll really doesn't understand taxation at all - his recent rants on the Alt Min Tax, Estate Taxes and corporate taxation are totally silly.

But, facts don't matter to him - it all about what his handlers have told him.

Take care.

Message edited by user at 11/26/2017 1:30:00 PM

23. D James
     (11/26/2017 1:22:01 PM)
     Message ID #294257

This message is in response to M Bathurst ( message id #294256 )  Back To All Messages

I trust your Thanksgiving was grand. Some of us, certainly you, actually have a good life. I pity those that are compelled by their inner voices to inflict their own demons on others.

24. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 1:57:34 PM)
     Message ID #294258

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294257 )  Back To All Messages

You are so pathetic. You must have spent a lot of time in detention.

25. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 1:55:52 PM)
     Message ID #294259

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294257 )  Back To All Messages

Like your bone spur hero, it is always, only, and ever about you.

26. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 1:53:26 PM)
     Message ID #294242

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294240 )  Back To All Messages

Just to let you and M know, the Army and taxpayers paid for me to go to civil school where I got two master's degrees. Thanks.

27. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/26/2017 1:30:03 PM)
     Message ID #294227

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294225 )  Back To All Messages

The essence of your dialogue with the Trump Trolls is mind-boggling.

Consider how crazy it really is...

Imagine that you and Trump Troll #1 have agreed to chip in to build a fence between your property since it is mutually beneficial to both.

You are both pleased at the finished product... but TT#1 is so awed by the venture that he decides you should both chip in 6 times as much and get fences for everyone on the block - many of whom can't afford a fence.

Then he takes one of his famous polls and argues that since 3 out of 4 people on your block are in favor of you buying them a fence... you have a moral obligation to pay.

Worse. They have a right to a fence.

...and if there are blacks on your street - you are racist for even suggesting you don't want to buy them one. The women on your block need protection - so not buying them one is misogynistic. God help us if you have gay neighbors... it would be homophobic to not buy them a fence.

Lol. How the hell did they ever get us to buy into this crap in the first place?????

28. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 2:06:15 PM)
     Message ID #294228

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #294227 )  Back To All Messages

You are carrying distracting and dissembling to an entirely new level. I don't blame you though. Who can defend all you are required to defend? A self-confessed, sexual predator defending a pedophile senate candidate, and a dog of tax reform bill. Impossible to defend.

29. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/26/2017 1:58:08 PM)
     Message ID #294229

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294228 )  Back To All Messages

I don't much like the tax bill. I don't believe in income tax. Consumption taxes are adequately progressive, totally blind and cheap and easy to manage with today's technology.

30. D James
     (11/26/2017 1:36:16 PM)
     Message ID #294235

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #294227 )  Back To All Messages

Crazy as A recent inductee to Bellevue or Marlboro State. The incoherence is fortunately, on this media, not followed up by a long trail of spittle.

31. Noel Meyer
     (11/26/2017 2:47:31 PM)
     Message ID #294233

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294225 )  Back To All Messages

" I will always pay my share and feel not at all compelled to pay one dime more.
There is no problem with under taxation but in runaway spending on programs and projects on matters which were not part of the deal set forth in the Constitution. "

"under Taxation" huh? Another name for tax cuts? if you TRULY " I will always pay my share" why must Republicans always CUT Taxes but only for the very rich and not keep selling revenue neutrality by adding tax cuts for corporations and the rich on the backs of the middle class and poor?

32. Noel Meyer
     (11/26/2017 3:04:47 PM)
     Message ID #294234

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294225 )  Back To All Messages

" I will always pay my share and feel not at all compelled to pay one dime more.
There is no problem with under taxation but in runaway spending on programs and projects on matters which were not part of the deal set forth in the Constitution. "


"under Taxation" huh? Another name for tax cuts? if you TRULY " I will always pay my share" why must Republicans always CUT Taxes but only for the very rich and not keep selling revenue neutrality by adding tax cuts for corporations and the rich on the backs of the middle class and poor?

33. D James
     (11/26/2017 3:01:55 PM)
     Message ID #294236

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #294234 )  Back To All Messages

Hmm. A post so nice you posted twice? I love your ability to generate boloed characters. I guess you were yelling at some imaginary opponent?

34. D James
     (11/26/2017 3:36:33 PM)
     Message ID #294237

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294236 )  Back To All Messages

Bolded

35. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 3:45:03 PM)
     Message ID #294214

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #294208 )  Back To All Messages

Notice that they are unable to talk about the subject so they revert to their old mode of attacking posters who can.
The idea of educating themselves and reading several analysis of the bill is beyond them, or is it like Rick said? They are both liars and stupid?

36. M Bathurst
     (11/26/2017 4:09:07 PM)
     Message ID #294209

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294207 )  Back To All Messages

You give him too much credit. He simply takes what his handlers tell him; then repeat it here.

37. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/26/2017 4:13:35 PM)
     Message ID #294216

This message is in response to M Bathurst ( message id #294209 )  Back To All Messages

Mr. B.

Today the MSM builds a story to sway public opinion. That is their objective.

Mr. Robb is simply a product of that effort. He is their ideal target market. A troll that absorbs it all, and goes out to spread the word. He is a disciple of Alinsky.

There is no reasoning.

38. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 4:25:03 PM)
     Message ID #294218

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #294216 )  Back To All Messages

Public opinion is definitely against the GOP tax reform proposals because no matter how much lipstick you put on this pig, it is a pig. trump campaigned that he was going to help the middle class. This tax reform proposal hurts the middle class.

39. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 5:02:49 PM)
     Message ID #294213

This message is in response to D James ( message id #294205 )  Back To All Messages

And your analysis is what? Will the most benefits from this plan go to the richest Americans and corporations (both of which are doing exceptionally well) or will they go to the middle class which is doing terribly? Your envelope please?

40. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/26/2017 4:59:18 PM)
     Message ID #294215

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294213 )  Back To All Messages

I am puzzled as to why Mr. Robb is in favor of keeping tax breaks for the wealthy that are clearly outdated in today's economy.

Something is terribly wrong with the current economy. It has yet to fully recover from the recession of '07-'08. 10 straight years of sub 3% growth, high U-6 unemployment rate, productivity at it's lowest level in decades, stagnation of wages, total lack of investment by small business, and all the profits pouring into a stock market that benefits few. The Keynesian thing failed miserably. $1 Trillion stimulus?

Where'd it go? Nobody knows. Here's what we learned; "there is no such thing as a shovel ready job". Lot's of solar panel firms went belly up. I suppose that was a hard lesson

What's professor Robb's fix?

Do nothing. Greed is good. Immigration is good. Socialist healthcare systems are better. Tax the rich until there are rich no more, make those bastards pay! Medicare for all.

Then we have the Trump=Russia thing, which has become a ball of yarn.

These are high times for the Robb! Precious days of being on top of the world.

Only thing is......he is rooting for failure. Now that is deplorable.

41. D Robb
     (11/26/2017 4:27:40 PM)
     Message ID #294217

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #294215 )  Back To All Messages

You continue to create your strawmen rather than honestly debate the question. That's because you know that this tax cut is designed and written to benefit the rich. Whose benefits are permanent and who's are temporary. Explain how repealing the Estate tax help the middle class?
I am all for simplifying the tax code and broadening the base of those paying taxes if the reform is revenue neutral or increases tax revenue. These bills blow a hole in the deficit.

42. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/26/2017 5:16:23 PM)
     Message ID #294243

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294217 )  Back To All Messages

Repealing the Federal Estate Tax is a moot point. It is easily avoided.

Other than that, explain how this tax plan benefits the wealthy.

43. Rick T CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/26/2017 5:30:47 PM)
     Message ID #294248

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #294243 )  Back To All Messages

Maybe you can explain how the estate tax is easily avoided.

Here are three ways the proposed tax plan benefits the wealthy almost in it's entirety.

1) Elimination of the Estate tax is clearly a benefit to the super wealthy.

"If the estate tax were repealed permanently, it could save Trump's estate $564 million based on an estimated net worth of $3 billion, as Bloomberg reported last year. Trump has said he is worth $10 billion, meaning he would be dealt even bigger savings."

2) Elimination of the Alternative Minimum tax is a direct benefit to the wealthy.

"Trump's plan proposes to repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax — which, as known from the limited 2005 returns leaked earlier this year, once cost the president $31 million. It accounted for most of the $38.5 million in taxes Trump paid that year.
The AMT, which is aimed at ensuring that the wealthy pay a fair share of taxes has plenty of opponents, some of whom believe it does not accomplish that goal."


3) The Pass-Through tax break is a massive windfall to no-one other than the wealthy. Here's a link to the discussion as to why this is so by the distinguished Center on Budget and Policy Priorities http://snips.ly/2RR73B .

These tax plans will add an estimated $1.5T to the deficit and trigger pay-go and, guess who is slated to pay? There will be cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security as conservatives argue we have a spending problem and, the wealth gap will grow larger and the wages will continue to fall as they did the last time this dumb-ass trickle down was tried.

The purposed tax cuts are a farce.

44. Noel Meyer
     (11/26/2017 5:22:41 PM)
     Message ID #294220

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #294215 )  Back To All Messages

"Only thing is......he is rooting for failure. Now that is deplorable."

Says YOU!

There are historical precedents, laws, acceptable behavior and there are breaks in such behavior. It is said that allowing 'Trump to continue to be Trump' will only destroy our democracy, the Republican Brand and American social values of truth - justice - and the American way.
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