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Do you think that the Trump Tax plan will help the middle class?

Yes
No
I have no idea



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1-13 of 13

1. Robert Campbell
     (11/28/2017 12:15:11 PM)
     Message ID #294341

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It's utter nonsense and totally without any factual basis to believe that a tax break for the wealthy translates into anything but a boon for the wealthy. There is no requirement for corporations to share their GOP largesse with working people so they won't. They never have and they never will. To claim a company would add employees or build factories based on higher after tax earnings is insane. Lower taxes doesn't increase demand for a company's goods or services, doesn't bring any new customers to the door, doesn't do anything but provide extra net income at the top.

In the past this extra money has been used to fuel the commercial building and S&L busts in the 1980s, the dot.com rise and fall of the early 2000s and the housing/credit recession of 2008. If they actually wanted to spur economic growth, they would take every dollar of the savings earmarked for those earning over $250K (net) and reassign that to everyone else. The folks at the bottom will spend every dime generating growth based on increased demand from the bottom up. That's the ONLY formula that works. This is simply a payoff to Trump and his 1%ers.

If you defend this GOP money grab and are NOT part of that very exclusive club that will benefit, you're a fool and tool for the Kochs and the Trumps of this country. If you don't have the good sense to be too ashamed to hold that position I'm ashamed for you and of you. You are this nation's problem.

2. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/28/2017 2:10:51 PM)
     Message ID #294346

This message is in response to Robert Campbell ( message id #294341 )  Back To All Messages

You are confusing trickle down with corporate tax rates.

The primary reason for lowering rates to corporations is to compete with other nations for domicile (facilities and jobs). Regardless of how they apply the additional after tax income, they must first decide where that income is maxed. If they choose the US, that's where the facilities and jobs will go. There are additional factors such as labor costs, skill levels, shipping, tariffs and whole host of issues... which generally means no unions, good education, and other issues the Democrats have shifted against America.

After that - the issue of how to apply increases in after tax income arises. If you understand competition - particularly elasticity - you will know that just passing the vig on to shareholders does not always serve them best. There are many factors involved here as well.

The decision will not be universal. Different strokes for different folks. Some percentage will go into lowering prices and expanding the business. To whatever extent this happens, the consumer benefits. At a certain point, sales drive tax revenues beyond their original starting point.

It is a risk. It doesn't always work. But it's a sound risk under normal circumstances - and a crucial risk for a nation $20T in debt.

If you have another way out of this debt - without growing the economy - I'd love to hear it. You could increase taxes - but that means collecting more from fewer working people... and that is precisely the disaster that has brought us to where we are today.

Message edited by user at 11/28/2017 2:13:05 PM

3. D Robb
     (11/28/2017 1:11:03 PM)
     Message ID #294347

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #294346 )  Back To All Messages

Robert, the US economy is primarily a consumer economy. Unfortunately, so much wealth has been concentrated in the top 2% of the population, and so many jobs have been lost to automation and lower wage, overseas workers, the average consumer has no money to spend. The answer is not to give more money to the top 2%. The answer is get more money to the middle class through better jobs and tax cuts. This flawed bill does not do that.

Message edited by user at 11/28/2017 1:13:17 PM

4. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/28/2017 6:18:14 PM)
     Message ID #294349

This message is in response to D Robb ( message id #294347 )  Back To All Messages

If you say so.

5. Noel Meyer
     (11/28/2017 4:05:47 PM)
     Message ID #294354

This message is in response to Robert Fahrbach ( message id #294346 )  Back To All Messages

Robert,
As Thomas C a.k.a. the Hawk stated -

"why would anyone start a company anyway? In order to have a company, they will eventually have to hire employees. That will force them to have to give away "their" money to their employees"

Your points that-
:The primary reason for lowering rates to corporations is to compete with other nations for domicile (facilities and jobs). Regardless of how they apply the additional after tax income, they must first decide where that income is maxed. If they choose the US, that's where the facilities and jobs will go. There are additional factors such as labor costs, skill levels, shipping, tariffs and whole host of issues... which generally means no unions, good education, and other issues the Democrats have shifted against America"

make no sense. If companies want ACCESS to market here in America the Chinese model of 'sell it here build it here' shows better results than any tax break. If American corporate investment wants to build in CHEAP NATIONS, where national take over of private investment is so common and violence and revolution are risks then do so and suffer those loses without calling in American Military to defend those assets from local militants.

6. Domenick Aulozzi CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/28/2017 3:51:37 PM)
     Message ID #294350

This message is in response to Robert Campbell ( message id #294341 )  Back To All Messages

How do you give a "tax break" to anyone that does not pay taxes? If I currently pay the highest percentage of taxes, why should I not get the highest tax break?

Furthermore, using your logic, why would anyone start a company anyway? In order to have a company, they will eventually have to hire employees. That will force them to have to give away "their" money to their employees. As you Robbs (I'm not sure you are not the same person) of the world have told us repeatedly, rich business people only want to hoard their money, they don't like to give it away. It seems to me they would be better off just taking someone else's money as their employee, rather than starting a business and having to wind up giving their own money away to employees.

7. Noel Meyer
     (11/28/2017 1:18:44 PM)
     Message ID #294352

This message is in response to Domenick Aulozzi ( message id #294350 )  Back To All Messages

"why would anyone start a company anyway? In order to have a company, they will eventually have to hire employees. That will force them to have to give away "their" money to their employees"

So the tax plan falls apart BECAUSE the very richest will NOT create jobs with those tax breaks, only horde more money, not re-invest that money into brick and mortar structures creating jobs, just giving more money to the very richest, best politically connected.

If you wanted an answer to "Do you think that the Trump Tax plan will help the middle class? " you just got your answer by a premier Trump supporter.

8. Thomas C CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/29/2017 8:30:21 AM)
     Message ID #294359

This message is in response to Noel Meyer ( message id #294352 )  Back To All Messages

The tax rate to the wealthy has not changed.

A 20-something economist who is an associate professor at U Chicago, has claimed 70% of sub-s owners are in the 1%, claims he has "studied" that......despite the fact tax returns are not public information...interesting hypothesis.

NYT, Krugman has run with it. More Tax cuts for wealthy! Front page news. They all read the NYT, must be true!

What I want to know is how this Associate Professor made the front page? And why are they all foaming at the mouth?

...and of course Professor Nobody got his PHD from of all places, Berkeley.

And the Liberals light their hair on fire! Again?

Let's follow the professors' logic. If he is correct your pizza guy, dry cleaner, plumber, lawn guy, paint store dude, and another 3-4 dozen sub-s corps you depend on, are all gazillionaires, and have retired!!

Remember what A. Smith said, "if given the choice between leisure and toils, humans will always choose the former.


There's your answer Meyer.

Message edited by user at 11/29/2017 8:32:39 AM

9. Rick T CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/28/2017 6:27:18 PM)
     Message ID #294364

This message is in response to Thomas C ( message id #294359 )  Back To All Messages

You asked how does this tax bill benefit the wealthy a couple of days ago. I showed you exactly how that was the case and I didn't hear anything from you. Now you resurface with a different attempted distortion of the facts of this tax cut.

The first time, could be blamed on ignorance of the facts. The second time, you are IMO being disingenuous! You cannot be trusted or taken seriously.

10. Robert Campbell
     (11/28/2017 4:58:43 PM)
     Message ID #294362

This message is in response to Domenick Aulozzi ( message id #294350 )  Back To All Messages

If only those making over $250K pay all the taxes, who's getting the $1100 Paul Ryan was so quick to highlight? It's THOSE people who should be getting the breaks as Trump promised them. He derided the rich to court the middle class TAXPAYERS and now he and the rest of the lying Republicans are stiffing them to enrich themselves.

Earning power for the wealthy has steadily increased since the 1980s while real wages for working people have stagnated. Since the Bush recession, that has actually accelerated. The fools who've been duped by Trump and the GOP complained during the campaign that they didn't feel they benefited from the recovery from '08. They were right. They didn't. And they didn't because the GOP saw to it they didn't. No raise in th minimum wage, no extension of benefits during the depths of the recession, filibustered a infrastructure bill, several tax increases on the wealthy to begin paying down the debt and now screwing them with their tax scheme.

Message edited by user at 11/28/2017 5:02:49 PM

11. Robert Fahrbach CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/28/2017 1:19:23 PM)
     Message ID #294363

This message is in response to Robert Campbell ( message id #294362 )  Back To All Messages

That is a horrible trend... but it has far more to do with the underlying fundamentals of automation, globalization and corporatism. than with American Politics.

The problem is that American Politics is all we have to try to reverse it. Unfortunately, Corporatists have complete control of the leaderless Democratic Party and significant control of traditional Republicans.

12. Domenick Aulozzi CEOExpressSelect Member
     (11/29/2017 9:42:35 AM)
     Message ID #294377

This message is in response to Robert Campbell ( message id #294362 )  Back To All Messages

Robb you still have not answered the question:

How do you get a tax "break" if you don't pay taxes and why shouldn't the ones paying the highest taxes get the biggest break?

13. D Robb
     (11/28/2017 8:24:58 PM)
     Message ID #294393

This message is in response to Domenick Aulozzi ( message id #294377 )  Back To All Messages

Your simple minded post shows you are as bad at math as M BSer. 57% pay taxes, but the richest 2% benefit from these tax cuts disportionately. Both they and corporations are doing very well and don't need a tax cut. The middle class is doing poorly and does.
Noel has posted a good list of all the things we need MORE money to address, not less, starting with the three hurricanes and our failing infrastructure. Why would any but the greedy think we need a tax cut which will balloon the deficit $2 trillion. Explain that.

Message edited by user at 11/29/2017 12:28:29 PM
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